Now the first arc is over, I think it's time for a Higurashi discussion and theorycrafting thread. Obviously contains spoilers for the entire series, I will be using spoiler tags but some things might slip by, so hide the thread if you care about that.
First, the struggle with Rena - I am inclined to believe that Keiichi hallucinated the whole thing. Needless to say, the scene itself is pretty ridiculous, what with Keiichi being repeatedly stabbed in the chest but still somehow managing to muster up the strength to bludgeon Rena with the clock several times. Later when we see him in the hospital, it's confirmed that he is a late stage HS patient, and his wounds don't match the state he was in when he lost consciousness - only his left cheek was grazed, and he had no neck injuries. Except for Ooishi confirming that something went down at his house on that night, none of the other characters allude to what really happened (understandable since Keiichi has just woken up from a coma.) Also, what happened to the neck collar? He's not wearing it anymore when Mion visits.
What the actual fuck happened to Tomitake, Takano and Irie? Takano shows up for only a few seconds, Tomitake shows up briefly but behaves the same as in Onikakushi, and since Keiichi doesn't go talk to them during the festival we don't see any more of them, and Irie doesn't show up at all and his clinic is being "remodeled". I think the most likely scenario is that Takano died for real (since the fake body wasn't found in the mountains and she is considered "missing") and the project was canceled, hence the "remodeling", but then I have no idea how she died. Since Tomitake's body wasn't found either, it's also possible that he wasn't injected with the HS pathogen.
Speaking of Takano, from the circumstances surrounding Rika's death we know it wasn't her who did it this time. I believe Satoko had a HS episode and Rika was forced to kill her, and then committed suicide by stabbing her own neck as seen in Meakashi.
>I am inclined to believe that Keichii hallucinated the whole thing.
I was thinking that at first as well, but then once he was actually stabbed and in the hospital I realized that it couldn't be true. Also Rena was displaying clear symptoms of Hinamizawa syndrome so that's something he wouldn't necessarily hallucinate since it wouldn't be a present thought in his head. There was nothing about how Rena acted that would make me think it was just a hallucination, as it was just too, well, Reina. There may be a bit of inconsistencies with how he ended up, but I don't think that it's meant to imply anything and could just be more things that the studio/R07 didn't really think too much of. Especially since with that ending scene and Rika being dead it's heavily implying that this Kakera is lost and it's time to move onto the next.
I don't think that Takano died for real, but there may have been some mischief going on with Rika and Tomitake which may be elaborated on later. From what I remember the clinic also underwent "remodeling" or similar periods of no functionality in other arcs, though I could be misremembering. It'd be too odd if Takano were to actually die, but I guess with what else has been shown it's not impossible. Maybe Lambda's introduced a new piece since Takano has failed her once?
I was actually really curious as to why she'd kill Satoko since it's pretty obvious Rika was the culprit this time, but I guess if she was suffering from a HS episode it'd make sense.
Hello! A new board has been made and you may want to move your thread there for more freedom >>>/cry/
I can move your thread there as well if you wish.
I find it highly unlikely anything was hallucinated since the tools were laid out and shown before K1 was any worried about her.
Surviving forty stab wounds is wack as fuck, but the scene being a hallucination strikes me as odd because he had stabilized just before that. Did Rena recover from the syndrome in Tsumihoroboshi? I recall something along those lines happening when they fought on the roof.>I think the most likely scenario is that Takano died for real
But what would kill her? She's the one managing the mountain dogs and the pathogen, and no one but Rika has a reason to target her. It's confirmed she met Tomitake after the festival and both disappeared after that, only explanations I can think up for that scenario is that they either left for some mysterious reason or were taken out by Rika somehow.
I agree that Takano mustn't have killed Rika and that it's possible Rika killed Satoko and/or herself.>>16>Rika and Tomitake
Hadn't thought of that, could be.>Maybe Lambda's introduced a new piece since Takano has failed her once?
I don't like the idea but it's possible.
For Rika to successfully ally with Tomitake and defeat Tokyo, she has to first communicate with the man and convince him of everything while avoiding being noticed by the dogs. Then they have to act, which should've happened when the lovebirds met up, but if Takano was the taken down then the dogs would surely strike back. Maybe that's why they killed the miko in an unorthodox way.
Rika better start doing some very proactive metagaming.
BUT, if they struck back and killed Rika, then Hinamizawa is getting gassed and they wouldn't really need to remodel the clinic.
Thanks.>>16>Also Rena was displaying clear symptoms of Hinamizawa syndrome so that's something he wouldn't necessarily hallucinate since it wouldn't be a present thought in his head.
I thought that Rika telling him to doubt himself before doubting Rena could have triggered latent memories/knowledge of HS. We do see him having flashbacks to Onikakushi when Rena shows up at his door, after all. In fact, if you think about how Rena was not standing by the door when he let her in, and how she was carrying a large package that needs to be held with both hands, I also think that Rena banging on the door and trying to force her way in was also hallucinated.
>There may be a bit of inconsistencies with how he ended up, but I don't think that it's meant to imply anything and could just be more things that the studio/R07 didn't really think too much of.
Even if we assume that this is the case for the face injuries, I really have a hard time believing that the neck collar is accidental. If Keiichi lost consciousness after pic related and woke up in the hospital wearing a neck collar, this means that either he suffered some sort of neck injury, or that it was possible to infer from the situation he was found in that he was a late stage HS patient (or at least consider the possibility.)
Consider also how unnatural it is for both of them to pass out, with Keiichi still alive and conscious. From what we're shown it's obvious that Rena had the upper hand the whole time; she stabbed him SEVENTEEN times before he hit her with the clock for the first time. I really have no idea how the hell we're supposed to believe that she was unable to kill him, and on top of that he was able to render her unconscious before passing out.
Having said all that, I don't discard the possibility that Rena really did try to kill him. It definitely seems she was also suffering from HS. That being the case, I think Rena's dialogue possibly indicates that in this timeline she killed Rina and Teppei, like in Tsumihoroboshi, but couldn't open up to her friends about it. Those feelings of guilt and paranoia led to self-loathing (she thinks her father is better off without her - but at the same time is not worried about him, i.e. Rina is already out of the picture) and serve as a catalyst for HS. This also explains why she had that look
on her face when Keiichi was rummaging through the trash in the dam construction site: in Tsumihoroboshi, iirc, before her friends help her dispose of the bodies, they are hidden inside a fridge in the trash heap.
It's also perhaps worth considering that Mion says Rika and Satoko were found dead the day after Rena visited Keiichi, but they could have been killed the day before, which doesn't rule out Rena as a possible suspect.
About the nurse, I'm thinking that line appeared more ominous than it really was because we see it from Keiichi's perspective. Like I said above, I believe that he's hospitalized as a HS patient.>>24>Did Rena recover from the syndrome in Tsumihoroboshi? I recall something along those lines happening when they fought on the roof.
Yes, she did.
I doubt Rena would go and kill Rika and Satoko, she hasn't shown any aggression towards them. Rika was even trying to prevent the event, I don't think Rena has a motive. And I don't think she'd be so careless were she to kill them.>>31
Then it's a tad more possible that the fight wasn't hallucinated.
>>35>I doubt Rena would go and kill Rika and Satoko
Oh, I agree. Just saying it's not impossible.
I'd say that's really reaching to assume this arc will continue any longer. There was hope with Rika convincing K1 to let Reina in, but then she turned out to be in a late stage herself. With her death the entire kakera may as well be lost to Rika since she doesn't want to lose her friends (after having found out she can). I'm pretty sure that ending scene was just the doctor confirming late stage HS developement. My guess is that since Rika's dead the town was probably gassed right after.
>>38>My guess is that since Rika's dead the town was probably gassed right after.
I don't think this is the case, because Takano didn't kill Rika (since she wasn't disemboweled at the shrine) and wasn't around to deploy the emergency manual. We don't know the date Keiichi wakes up in the hospital, but it's possible that more than 48 hours have elapsed since the discovery of Rika's body, too.
Given what's happened so far I think it's safe to say there was no hallucination with K1's altercation with Rena, and the neck brace was to prevent him from scratching.
If I'm not mistaken, the disaster doesn't occur in Watanagashi/Meakashi because Takano is not able to kill Rika. We don't find out what happened to her, but it's safe to assume the project was cancelled.
I wonder: does Shion not have late stage HS this time around, since she didn't hear the footsteps? Or is Hanyuu gone for whatever reason? Hard to tell at this point, since we haven't gotten anything from Rika's perspective yet.
Rika's perspective is sure to be interesting. I guess that this episode hints at why we hadn't seen it yet.
Judging from the phone call I assume that K1 this time is the one who's in late stage, as Shion's more taken aback by his attitude over the phone and seems more reserved about the situation herself. Although at this point I'm not entirely sure, it could still be Rena again who snaps.
I know that in the vn (was it also in the anime?) had Bern and Rika existing in the metaverse as two separate people. But when in comes to Rika living in a world, do the two of them merge, or is Bern still an observer while also being part of Rika. Or is the Bern in the metaverse a Bern from past Higurashi's conclusion?
Only real spoiler related to Umineko would be that Bernkastel is in it, she's not the happiest of people, and she's somewhat Rika. Which is something you'd already know from Rei if you read/watched it.
If anything Umineko comes up it'd be something so unrelated to the story of that, that you wouldn't even need to worry about being spoiled.
What happened to her nipples? Also, that's good news. That was kind of something I already knew, yeah
So was it Mion this time?
it is weird to have mion talk about the conspiracy but it'd be even weirder for shion to have been the one at the game event
say shmion did nothing, why would the dogs prematurely kill everyone? takano seemed to still be present
I'm pretty sure they realized Shion killed Rika or maybe they thought she had her captured, and moved to secure her. K1's still alive at the end of the arc so the Great Hinamizawa disaster never occurred.
I'm still confused over what happened at the end of this arc. I don't think Ooishii could have killed everyone since it would have to have been at the festival with everyone around, and it didn't seem like he had anything close to L5 symptoms. I think the more likely outcome is that the Yamainu showed up, and Ooishi tried to save them. Although what I don't understand is why Ooishii's assistant or Rena are still alive in that case so it may be wrong.
Given that the next chapter is called "Nekodamashi" I think that it's finally time that we'll see things from Rika's perspective. It's sure to be interesting with all that's been set up and shrouded in mystery until now.
What do you suppose the last remnant of the "loop-killer" really does? I find it hard to believe that it'll allow Rika to find solace in death if she chooses, but instead is a beacon of sorts to indicate she's fallen into absolute despair. Since Bernkastel must exist for Umineko, that is.
It also seems right that she retains the memory of her death as she is now on the same level as Hanyuu, meaning she's already stepped fully into the meta territory that allows her to retain everything and live outside of the world. And since this is Nekodamashi, and Rika stated she'd go 5 arcs more with 10 episodes left I don't think that Nekodamashi is necessarily referring to this specific world, but rather the deceiving of Rika in the "last" 5 loops.
It seems like he was drugged by Takano since it seemed as though he came from their direction, and the bloody bat is probably from Tomitake. Either that or he also killed Takano since the operation never occured and the village was still standing after K1 exited his coma.
Does Rika being able to remember who kills her in each fragment and the scratch on Hanyuu's horn being fixed tie in to Featherine's memory device somehow?>>324
It was used to kill Hanyuu in one of the console arcs, I think, so I guess that it being able to kill Rika and let her stay permanently dead doesn't seem like that big of a stretch. I don't see why Hanyuu would lie to Rika about it's capabilities, either.>>325
I think the bat may be the same one Teppei attacked Keiichi with. Maybe he used Teppei to take out Keiichi and took the bat for himself after confirming that Keiichi was dead. He got to the festival ahead of Satoko because he went in his car. I'm not sure what's up with Takano and Tomitake, but they were in the parking lot when this was happening and were likely stealing a truck to escape in again. Still don't know why.
Hmm, I guess if it could kill Hanyuu there's potential in it, but at the same time Rika must live, in some functioning state, so that Bernkastel exists for the future in Umineko. So that's what has me curious. Either Rika gets through in one of these next 5 loops or Hanyuu was played by Featherine or similar and the sword doesn't work of truly meta beings.
And the connection between Hanyuu's horns being repaired and Rika's memories being tied in with Featherine is porbably a pretty likely connection. Since it has been stated that Featherine's memory device was once
damaged in the past, and Hanyuu needing to leave when it's repaired most likely is a signal that she's regained herself and her memories. Or its symbolic and Hanyuu was a representation of Rika's powers Featherine put in, and like how her memories were damaged when her horns were chipped, Rika's were as well., and now that the horns are fixed so are Rika's memories.
>>367>It can't be just Takano screwing with things, the rules around who's going L5 in a loop have completely changed.
I think so too, but it's hard to say when we've barely seen Takano at all.
I was wondering if there is any significance to the scene from the previous episode where Hanyuu tells Rika about the sword and says it can kill loopers. Is this perhaps implying the existence of another person other than Rika who has similar abilities?
Given that Rika basically went through all the loops at once and we're still in Nekodamashi-hen. I think that it's fair to assume that the twist is her sword won't have the effect she believes it will.
One theory I've seen bounced around which could make some sense is that this is the result of Rika splitting with Bern, so while the regular Rika was able to live on in the good timeline, Bern is condemned to living through and trying to solve the mystery behind Hinamizawa for all eternity until she becomes the witch of miracles.